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Latest News Sep 21, 2022 Imagining Equity The gifts of Christian feminist theology Read More Sep 21, 2022 Meghan Markle is not holding back. Duchess of Sussex has opened up about her personal life. Read More Sep 21, 2022 ARCHETYPES on Spotify Meghan Markle has started a new podcast on Spotify that explores some of the language used to describe women. Read More

Latest News Sep 21, 2022 Imagining Equity The gifts of Christian feminist theology Read More Sep 21, 2022 Meghan Markle is not holding back. Duchess of Sussex has opened up about her personal life. Read More Sep 21, 2022 ARCHETYPES on Spotify Meghan Markle has started a new podcast on Spotify that explores some of the language used to describe women. Read More

< Back ARCHETYPES on Spotify ALW Sep 21, 2022 Meghan Markle has started a new podcast on Spotify that explores some of the language used to describe women. Meghan Markle has started a new podcast on Spotify that explores some of the language used to describe women. The first three are out and available here . Previous Next

Anonymous blog post Years ago, I was part of a cohort being trained to be coaches for pastors. I was the only woman pastor in a cohort of about 8. During one of the sessions, each of us was assigned a partner with whom we would do the homework for the next session. My partner and I weren't able to meet to do the assignment before the next session but at that session, he raised an issue that is an example of the kind of resistance & fear I've encountered as a woman pastor in a mostly male vocation. My partner was surprised that his wife was upset by the mere idea that he had been paired with a woman for the assignment. He loves & respects his wife but was at a complete loss for how to handle her discomfort with him working with a female colleague. I was glad that he brought it up for discussion with the rest of the cohort and our instructor, but I was also uncomfortable that it had even been an issue, especially since he and I failed to do the assignment together. I was also uncomfortable being the only woman present to address the issue. I didn't want to make it personal and criticize his wife, but I also didn't feel comfortable sharing how I felt. I'm happily married and have never had a problem with the wives of other pastors whom I've actually worked with, each for several years. My first thought after an initial flush of annoyance was—why would my partner's wife assume that anything inappropriate would occur between her husband and me? As if! Another time a member of my church, who had been so grateful that I had been willing to meet with her husband to help get him to address a serious addiction, came to believe that her husband and I were having an affair because her husband had gotten so upset when our senior pastor decided that he should meet with him instead of me. I was completely blind-sided and even insulted. Did she distrust me after she was the one who wanted me to meet with her husband because she thought he would listen to me? Did she think I would be unfaithful to my own husband? Again, as if! I'm still at somewhat of a loss for how to respond to the fears of women like this. It's not enough to just say it's their own insecurities and I didn't do anything wrong or unprofessional. I don't want to dismiss their fears, yet at the same time, I don't want to feel like I have to defend myself against other people's feelings and unfounded fears. I'd like to hear what other women pastors think and how they've handled similar situations themselves. I've been blessed to work with several male senior pastors who have been very supportive of my call to pastoral ministry. Unfortunately, it has been other women and men who say they support women in ministry—as long as they're not the lead pastor—who have made it difficult for me as a pastor. We’d also like to hear how you’ve handled these situations. At AWL, we don’t subscribe to the idea that women and men can’t counsel, teach, and support one another one-on-one. We don’t believe they can’t be friends and colleagues. We DO believe we can all treat one another as images of God and siblings in Christ. We can do this for suspicious spouses, too! But how, without compromising our call to minister to everyone? It’s an excellent question.

Quote from the Article: He taught that Psalm 8 meant that there is a hierarchy, with God at the top, and then angels, and then husbands, and then wives. At family camp, a non-FMC speaker was invited in to teach about family. He taught that Ps 8:4, “What is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and You have crowned him with glory and honor” (NKJV) meant that there is a hierarchy, with God at the top, and then angels, and then husbands, and then wives. When several women elders expressed concerns about this teaching, the Superintendent had a private conversation with the speaker, who then joked with the attendees in his next session that “some of the wives weren’t very happy about my teaching last night.” No effort was ever made to correct that theology for those listening. A male elder told jokes about “the differences between men and women” as an annual conference keynote. I confronted him about the damage done by those kinds of jokes. I discussed the default they presented as “the man’s point of view is the right one and the woman’s is unreliable” in every difference between men and women he mentioned. I mentioned how condescending and paternalistic it came across. Finally, I talked about how damaging it was to imply, by conference sanction as a keynote, that this type of speaking was acceptable and appropriate for FM pastors and could be replicated in their pulpits. He was apologetic, attentive, and kind throughout the conversation. His defense, however, was that “my wife thought they were funny,” and “my wife is ordained, so I obviously support women.” He did not seem to understand that neither statement proved my experience of the jokes to be wrong. No apology to the larger body for damage done occurred, despite leadership knowing this conversation had happened and being present at it. One FMC leader, while speaking publicly about pastoral abuse, mentioned that in one instance a woman’s husband was greatly impacted by what had happened to her. I tried to point out privately that it is problematic when women’s mistreatment is measured by how badly the men in her life are impacted. He disagreed. When I continued the conversation, he brought in another leader to whom my boss’s boss reports. I tried to point out how unsafe that made me feel because of the way it changed the power dynamics. He was greatly wounded by this idea that I found him unsafe and became so fragile that further fruitful conversation became impossible. My male senior pastor regularly told sexist jokes from the pulpit. Over the course of several years, I occasionally brought up to him how damaging that was. I spoke to him myself, and also sent articles that discussed why it was a problem that harms the whole congregation, men and women alike. He never stopped. I confronted a pastor who had “biblical masculinity” as one of the values of his church. After back and forth emails in which he kept talking about how busy he was, we eventually set a time for a phone meeting. I had written out in front of me 6 different reasons why that was inappropriate as a value for a FM church. He began the conversation by assuring me condescendingly that once he explained to me what it meant, I would understand why it was okay. He tried to tell me that what he meant by biblical masculinity didn’t include the subordination of women. He understood biblical masculinity from the perspective of the "feminization" of the church (an equally problematic and sexist viewpoint which he assumed I didn’t know about or understand). One of my arguments was the way the term “biblical masculinity” had been used to silence women, and therefore the way it sounded to women elders in our conference, reminding them of some of their worst experiences of marginalization. He responded, “Well, that just sounds like political correctness to me!” The argument that seemed to resonate with him the most out of my six was that everywhere else that phrase is used it does mean the subordination of women, so that’s what it communicates to anyone coming to his website. He tried to tell me that he didn’t know whether that was really true, but I volunteered to send him 10 examples once we got off the phone, and he didn’t pursue that line of discussion. Eventually, he said that he was going to have to end the conversation. Since he had not been able to convince me that it was okay for him to have “biblical masculinity” as one of his values in an FM church, I asked when I could expect him to take it down. He got really mad then, told me he was busy, and he had no idea when he might get to it.

Women are sometimes thought to be more emotional and/or less rational than men. Have you experienced treatment like this from FMC leaders? Women are sometimes thought to be dangerous to a man’s ministry (as a threat to his leadership). Have you experienced treatment like this from FMC leaders? Women are sometimes thought to be dangerous to a man’s ministry (as a threat to his sexual purity). Have you experienced treatment like this from FMC leaders?